Font licensing. Not again. If I’m honest, it’s as boring as hell. But if you’re a designer, understanding what you’re buying matters. The licence you choose affects how you can use a font, what you can deliver to your client, and whether that lovely design creates an awkward conversation further down the line.
I’m a type designer, and even I find font licensing confusing sometimes. So I’m going to do my best to explain the different types, what they generally cover, and where you need to pay attention.
Font licensing is confusing because there isn’t one standard set of rules. Foundries divide usage into different categories, charge using different measurements, and include different permissions under the same licence names.
Something one foundry includes in a desktop licence might require an extra licence somewhere else.
Lovely. Off to a flying start.
Protect yourself and your client
Font licensing tends to be one of those subjects you don’t think about until someone asks a question you can’t answer.
“Are we licensed to use this font in our app?”
You remember buying it. You’ve got the receipt somewhere. But did that purchase cover an app, or just the design work you created on your computer?
If a client assumes you’ve checked the font licensing, discovering a gap after launch can mean extra costs, delays or replacing a typeface across work that’s already finished.
None of those options makes for a particularly cheerful Monday.
The sensible approach is to establish the intended use before the design gets approved—and make it clear who’s responsible for buying and managing the licences.
Do designers really need to know this stuff?
Yes.
At a large agency, someone in production, procurement or legal might handle the purchases. You don’t necessarily need to negotiate every agreement yourself.
But you still need enough knowledge to spot when a project needs checking. Choosing a font for a poster is one thing. Choosing it for an international brand with packaging, apps, advertising and hundreds of suppliers is quite another.
If you’re freelance or self-employed, that responsibility is more likely to land on your desk.
Somewhere between the actual design work and the cold coffee.
Why does font licensing get complicated so quickly?
A font can do several jobs within the same project.
You might install it on your computer to design a brand identity. A developer might embed it on the website. Another team might put it inside an app. An external agency might use it in advertising.
Same typeface. Different uses. Potentially different permissions.
The useful starting point is to ask:
- Who will use the font?
- Who should hold the licence?
- Where will the finished work appear?
- Will anyone receive or access the font files?
- Will customers use it to create their own content?
- Are there limits on users, traffic, products, campaigns or time?
This is a general guide, not a replacement for the agreement supplied with your font. Where I discuss copyright and trademarks, I’m using the UK as the starting point; rules vary elsewhere.
What are the main font licences?
These are the main categories and extensions you’re likely to encounter. They aren’t seventeen licences every project needs. Some overlap, and some foundries bundle several together.
- Desktop / Print licence
- Webfont licence
- App licence
- Electronic Document / ePub licence
- Digital Ad / Email licence
- Server licence
- Company Desktop licence
- Embedded / Device / OEM licence
- Games licence
- Broadcast / Streaming / Video licence
- Enterprise / Corporate / Tailored Branding licence
- Agency / Third-Party / Supplier licence
- High-Volume Commercial licence
- Personalised Products licence
- Alphabet / Letterform Products licence
- Logo / Wordmark licence
- Social Media licence
Desktop / Print licence
A desktop licence generally lets you install a font on a computer and use it in design software to create finished work.
Think brochures, posters, stationery and other everyday graphic design.
It’s often the first licence a designer needs. But “desktop” describes a licensing category, not necessarily a strict one-person, one-computer arrangement.
What’s generally included?
- Brochures and catalogues.
- Leaflets, flyers and pamphlets.
- Posters and printed advertising.
- Business cards and stationery.
- Letterheads and compliment slips.
- Printed books, magazines and newspapers.
- Restaurant menus.
- Invitations.
- Finished artwork for ordinary commercial design projects.
What may be included, depending on the agreement?
- Packaging and labels.
- Logos and visual identities.
- Signage and exhibition graphics.
- Greeting cards.
- T-shirts, mugs and other merchandise.
- Static social media graphics.
- Static digital advertisements.
- PDFs with permitted viewing and printing permissions.
- Video titles and animation.
- Uploading fonts to approved online design tools.
These aren’t automatically “extended licence” uses. Many desktop licences cover a generous range of commercial work.
For example, MyFonts advises customers to check each foundry’s desktop agreement for restrictions involving logos, products for sale and other uses. Fontspring also explains that cloud design tools such as Canva require attention to the relevant permissions. (MyFonts FAQ; MyFonts licensing descriptions; Fontspring desktop applications)
What’s generally outside an ordinary desktop licence?
- Embedding font files in websites.
- Embedding them in apps or games.
- Installing them on a server for customer-facing content generation.
- Distributing the font files to customers.
- Sharing them with unlicensed colleagues or suppliers.
- Reselling the font itself.
- Using more users or installations than the agreement permits.
What if more than one person needs the font?
Buy coverage for the relevant number of users, devices or other licensing units.
Some agreements count the people actually using the font. Others use company size or a different measure. One user might be allowed to install it on both a desktop computer and a laptop—but check.
“One person, one licence” can be a useful starting point. It isn’t a universal rule.
You don’t own the font
Buying a font licence gives you permission to use the font software under agreed conditions.
It doesn’t transfer ownership of the font software or give you exclusive rights to its design.
You can own rights in artwork you create without owning every tool used to create it. Buying a camera doesn’t make you the owner of photography. Fonts work on a similarly unglamorous principle.
Webfont licence
A webfont licence allows a website to load font files and display live text in the chosen typeface.
That includes headings, paragraphs, navigation and buttons. The words remain text, rather than becoming pictures of text.
What’s generally included?
- Website headings and body copy.
- Navigation menus and buttons.
- Landing pages.
- Blog posts and articles.
- Online shops and product descriptions.
- Forms and contact pages.
- Responsive layouts viewed on computers, tablets and phones.
What needs checking?
- Which domains and subdomains are covered.
- Whether you can host the files yourself.
- Whether the provider requires its own hosting service.
- Any monthly pageview or traffic limit.
- Whether the licence is perpetual or subscription-based.
- Coverage for staging and development websites.
- Whether multiple websites belonging to the same business are included.
Different providers take different approaches. Fontspring, for example, describes perpetual webfont licences with monthly pageview allowances, including unlimited options. (Fontspring Pageviews FAQ)
What’s generally not included?
- App or game embedding.
- Giving website visitors access to reusable font files.
- Installing the font for ordinary desktop design work.
- Customer-facing design tools unless expressly covered.
- Digital advertising or email use where separate permissions apply.
Converting a desktop font into WOFF or WOFF2 doesn’t create webfont rights. You’ve changed the file format, not the agreement.
Also, placing a finished logo image on a website is different from loading the font to display live website text.
App licence
An app licence allows developers to embed font software inside a licensed application.
For example, a banking app might use it for menus, balances, buttons and transaction details. Users see the font without installing it separately.
What’s generally included?
- Embedded text within the licensed app.
- Menus, navigation and buttons.
- Headings, paragraphs and labels.
- Dynamic text that changes during use.
- Distribution of the font as a protected part of the application.
What needs checking?
- Whether the licence covers mobile apps, desktop software or both.
- Whether iOS and Android versions count as one app.
- Whether updates and new versions are included.
- Any limits based on downloads, users or installations.
- Whether additional apps need separate licences.
- Whether games, web apps or subscription software fall within its scope.
An app licence can be quite broad or quite specific. Dinamo, for example, includes several application types within its app category, while other providers use narrower definitions. (Dinamo Licensing Terms)
What’s generally not included?
- Unrelated apps outside the agreement.
- Website embedding.
- Providing the font as a downloadable resource.
- Allowing users to export it for use elsewhere.
- Unlimited customer-generated designs unless expressly permitted.
Creating an app mockup in design software and embedding the font in the finished app are two different uses.
Electronic Document / ePub licence
An Electronic Document licence allows you to embed a font inside a digital publication.
That might be an eBook, digital magazine, newspaper or another publication that needs to display its text using the embedded font.
What’s generally included?
- Font embedding within licensed electronic publications.
- eBooks and digital novels.
- Digital magazines and newspapers.
- Digital textbooks.
- Distribution to readers through permitted publishing formats.
What needs checking?
- How many publications the licence covers.
- Whether each magazine issue counts separately.
- How revised editions are treated.
- Whether language and regional editions are included.
- Whether different file formats count as the same publication.
- Any requirements for subsetting or protecting the font data.
Monotype’s Electronic Doc guidance counts each issue as a separate publication. It treats regional and format variations differently from new publications, and distinguishes free updates from new versions sold separately. (Monotype Electronic Doc License)
Does every PDF need an ePub licence?
No.
Some desktop agreements already permit read-only PDF embedding. Others restrict commercial electronic publications or particular kinds of embedding.
Adobe Fonts also permits protected eBook embedding under its own conditions. That’s an example of why you need to read the agreement rather than assume every provider sells the same categories. (Adobe Fonts licensing FAQs)
What’s generally not included?
- Extracting the font for use elsewhere.
- Giving readers a reusable copy of the font.
- Editable templates or document-generation tools unless expressly covered.
- Publications beyond the agreed allowance.
A finished document someone reads is a different proposition from a template they can use to create new documents.
Digital Ad / Email licence
A Digital Ad licence commonly covers font embedding in online advertisements, particularly HTML5 ads that display live text.
An Email licence or extension may cover live fonts in newsletters and marketing emails. Providers don’t all group these uses together.
What’s generally included where specified?
- HTML5 banner advertisements.
- Responsive display advertisements.
- Interactive advertising.
- Dynamic ad text.
- Distribution through approved advertising networks.
- Live font use in licensed email campaigns.
What needs checking?
- The number of advertising impressions.
- Whether the allowance covers one campaign or several.
- Campaign duration.
- Whether agencies and advertising platforms can handle the font files.
- Whether email use belongs under web, advertising or a separate licence.
- Whether paid social advertising has separate requirements.
What’s generally not included?
- Unrelated website or app embedding.
- Unrestricted distribution of the font files.
- Campaigns beyond the agreed scope.
- Server-based personalisation unless the agreement covers it.
A static JPEG advert and an HTML5 advert loading font software aren’t the same technical use. However, some foundries also license advertising by its commercial purpose, so static artwork isn’t automatically exempt from extra requirements.
Pangram Pangram’s broadcast terms, for example, extend into specified advertising and paid-media uses. (Pangram Pangram EULA)
Server licence
A server licence allows software running on a server to use a font for an agreed purpose.
For example, an online greeting card shop might turn a customer’s typed message into print-ready artwork automatically.
The customer never installs the font. The server does the work.
What might it cover?
- Automated PDF generation.
- Invoices and receipts.
- Certificates.
- Personalised stationery.
- Greeting cards and invitations.
- Images generated from customer text.
- Print-ready documents created from forms or databases.
What needs checking?
- Whether the licence permits internal automation, customer-facing tools or both.
- How servers or cloud instances are counted.
- Whether development and testing environments are included.
- Whether personalised merchandise is covered.
- Whether customers can edit or download generated documents.
- Whether a software-as-a-service product requires a different agreement.
MyFonts’ published server guidance illustrates the distinction: it describes customer-generated products but excludes SaaS where the service itself is the product. (MyFonts FAQ)
What’s generally not included?
- Giving customers the font files.
- Unrestricted embedding in apps or devices.
- Every possible cloud service.
- Uses outside the agreed production system.
A webfont licence covers displaying website text. It doesn’t automatically cover a server producing thousands of personalised products.
Company Desktop licence
A Company Desktop licence provides desktop coverage for an organisation under an agreed company-wide arrangement.
It may use employee count or another organisational measure rather than individual purchases for each designer.
MyFonts describes this category in connection with employee workstations, design tools, office applications and brand workflows. (MyFonts licensing descriptions)
What might it cover?
- Employees using fonts in design applications.
- Office documents and presentations.
- Internal marketing and brand teams.
- Installation across agreed company workstations.
- Central management of desktop font access.
What needs checking?
- Whether coverage includes all employees or selected users.
- Subsidiaries and overseas offices.
- Contractors and freelancers.
- Changes in company size.
- Shared systems and cloud design tools.
What’s generally not included automatically?
- Webfont embedding.
- Apps and games.
- Hardware distribution.
- Unrestricted supplier access.
- Ownership or exclusivity.
“Company” describes who’s covered. It doesn’t necessarily mean every use imaginable is included.
Embedded / Device / OEM licence
An Embedded, Device or OEM licence covers fonts distributed within a physical product or its software.
OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. Not a thrilling acronym, but a useful category.
Think of text on a car dashboard, a medical device or another product with its own screen. Monotype identifies device and physical-product distribution as an embedded licensing use. (Monotype font licensing terms and definitions)
What might it cover?
- Device menus and settings.
- Dashboard displays.
- Product interfaces.
- Embedded operating software.
- Font distribution within specified hardware.
What needs checking?
- Which products and models are covered.
- Manufacturing quantities.
- Territories.
- Firmware updates.
- Replacement units.
- Whether manufacturers and technical partners can access the files.
What’s generally not included?
- Unrelated product ranges.
- Standalone font downloads.
- Companion apps unless specified.
- Advertising and website use unless bundled into the agreement.
A product’s screen, its phone app and its promotional website may need different permissions.
Games licence
A Games licence allows font software to be embedded within a video game.
That could cover menus, dialogue, scores, player names and other text generated during play.
What’s generally included within the licensed game?
- Menus and navigation.
- Dialogue and subtitles.
- Instructions and tutorials.
- Scores and leaderboards.
- Heads-up displays.
- Maps and inventories.
- Dynamic player information.
What needs checking?
- PC, console and mobile versions.
- Whether multiple platforms count as one title.
- Updates and patches.
- Downloadable content and expansions.
- Sequels.
- Download or sales limits.
- Whether promotional artwork and trailers are covered separately.
What’s generally not included?
- Other games outside the agreement.
- Making the font available to players.
- Unrestricted use in modding or creation tools.
- Companion websites and apps unless specified.
Some providers handle games through an App licence instead of a separate Games licence. Start with what the game does and where it runs, then match that to the provider’s terms.
Broadcast / Streaming / Video licence
A Broadcast, Streaming or Video licence covers the use of a typeface in moving-image content where the provider requires separate permission.
That might mean television, films, streaming programmes, adverts or online videos.
What might it cover?
- Opening titles and end credits.
- Programme graphics.
- Subtitles and captions.
- Animated typography.
- Television commercials.
- Online video campaigns.
- Streaming content.
- Digital billboard animation.
What needs checking?
- Whether coverage applies to a brand, production, series or campaign.
- Television, cinema, streaming and social platforms.
- Territories and duration.
- Audience, views or impressions.
- Paid advertising.
- Production companies and external editors.
What’s generally not included?
- Embedding the font in a streaming app.
- Other productions outside the agreement.
- Sharing font files with unlicensed production partners.
- Automatically using the font across the rest of a brand’s communications.
Not every provider charges separately for video. Adobe Fonts permits video and broadcast work under its terms, while Dinamo offers a separate video category. (Adobe Fonts licensing FAQs; Dinamo Licensing Terms)
The fact that you used After Effects tells you how the work was made. It doesn’t, by itself, settle the licensing.
Enterprise / Corporate / Tailored Branding licence
An Enterprise or Corporate licence brings agreed uses together for an organisation.
A tailored branding agreement can do something similar for a particular identity, product or campaign.
These agreements are useful when a project doesn’t fit neatly into a checkout menu.
What might it include?
- Desktop use across teams.
- Website embedding.
- Apps and digital products.
- Packaging and advertising.
- Video and social media.
- Supplier access.
- Agreed territories and brands.
- A defined process for adding new uses.
What needs checking?
- The exact companies and subsidiaries covered.
- Whether the agreement applies to one brand or several.
- Usage limits and renewal dates.
- Whether acquisitions and new products are included.
- Any modification rights.
- Supplier permissions.
- Whether exclusivity is included at all.
What’s generally not included automatically?
- Ownership of the font.
- Exclusive use of a retail typeface.
- Unlimited use by unrelated businesses.
- Every future application of the font.
Dinamo’s enterprise offering is one example of a bundled licence covering several media categories for a brand. Other foundries structure their agreements differently. (Dinamo Licensing Terms)
For my own fonts, the sensible starting point is to tell me what you’re making, who’ll use the files and where the work will appear. That gives us something concrete to discuss.
Agency / Third-Party / Supplier licence
This category addresses access by people outside the organisation holding the licence.
That might include a freelance designer, advertising agency, packaging studio, developer or production partner.
Sometimes it’s a separate extension. Sometimes the main agreement already includes it.
What might it cover?
- Approved agencies working for the licence holder.
- Freelancers producing brand materials.
- Production suppliers accessing font files.
- Temporary use for a specific project.
- A defined number of external users.
What needs checking?
- Which suppliers are covered.
- Whether they count towards user limits.
- Whether they need their own licences.
- Whether access ends when the project finishes.
- Whether they can retain the files.
- Whether they can use the font for other clients.
What’s generally not included?
- Passing fonts to any supplier without checking.
- Suppliers using them for unrelated work.
- Reselling or transferring the client’s licence.
- Unlimited subcontracting.
Sending a finished PDF isn’t the same as sending the font.
Adobe Fonts, for example, doesn’t allow font-file packaging for collaborators; people who need the fonts require their own access or licence. (Adobe Fonts licensing FAQs)
High-Volume Commercial licence
A High-Volume Commercial licence or extension increases the permitted scale of production where the standard agreement sets a limit.
This isn’t a universal requirement. Some licences allow unlimited production from the outset.
What might an extension cover?
- Large greeting card print runs.
- High-volume packaging.
- Mass-produced merchandise.
- Products distributed across several territories.
- Production beyond an existing quantity allowance.
What needs checking?
- The actual threshold.
- Whether quantities accumulate over time.
- Whether the limit applies per design, product or business.
- Whether packaging and merchandise are treated differently.
- Whether extra production requires an upgrade.
What doesn’t it automatically cover?
- Website or app embedding.
- Extra desktop users.
- Customer personalisation tools.
- Alphabet products.
- Exclusivity.
Selling a lot of something doesn’t automatically trigger an additional fee. The licence needs to contain the relevant restriction.
Equally, buying a licence labelled “commercial” doesn’t necessarily mean unlimited quantities.
Personalised Products licence
A Personalised Products licence covers agreed uses where customers customise items containing the typeface.
For example, someone might type a name into an online tool to create a mug, wedding invitation or greeting card.
What might it cover?
- Customer-entered names and messages.
- Personalised cards and invitations.
- Custom clothing and gifts.
- Product previews.
- Automated production of print-ready artwork.
What needs checking?
- Whether the customer can choose and apply fonts.
- Whether you create the design manually or software generates it.
- Server and browser use.
- Product categories.
- The number of platforms or websites.
- Whether customers receive finished artwork or editable files.
What’s generally not included?
- Downloading the font itself.
- Reusable alphabet assets.
- Unrestricted design tools.
- Products outside the agreed scope.
A designer manually adding someone’s name to a card may be covered differently from a website letting thousands of customers generate their own designs.
Fontspring identifies customer-operated product creation as a use that can require custom licensing. (Fontspring Product Creation)
Alphabet / Letterform Products licence
This concerns products where the individual letters themselves are the main thing being sold.
Think alphabet stamps, individual letter stickers, cutting files or a reusable collection of letter shapes.
That’s different from selling a finished poster containing a sentence.
What might a specific agreement cover?
- Alphabet stamp sets.
- Individual letter stickers.
- Stencils.
- Letter-shaped craft products.
- Digital cutting files.
- Reusable letterform collections.
What needs checking?
- Physical products versus digital files.
- Whether buyers can assemble their own words.
- Whether the product reproduces a substantial character set.
- Whether it acts as a substitute for buying the font.
- Whether outline files can be redistributed.
What’s generally not included under an ordinary desktop licence?
- Selling the font’s characters as reusable assets.
- Turning the alphabet into a substitute font product.
- Distributing editable letterform collections without permission.
Adobe Fonts expressly excludes products made from individual glyphs for customers to assemble into their own text. (Adobe Fonts licensing FAQs)
An alphabet poster and an alphabet kit aren’t necessarily the same licensing use. Explain the actual product before assuming either way.
Logo / Wordmark licence
A Logo or Wordmark licence permits a typeface to be used in an agreed brand mark where separate permission is required.
Many desktop licences already allow logo design. Some foundries sell logo rights separately.
Pangram Pangram, for example, offers a distinct Logo licence. (Pangram Pangram FAQ)
What might it cover?
- Creating a company wordmark.
- Using the agreed logo across specified media.
- Approved variations.
- Modifying outlined lettering where permitted.
What needs checking?
- Whether ordinary desktop rights already cover the logo.
- Whether the client must hold the licence.
- Whether each brand or design needs separate coverage.
- Whether modification is allowed.
- Whether the terms address trade mark registration.
- Whether broader use of the font in brand communications needs additional licences.
Can you register a logo made with a retail font?
Using a publicly available font doesn’t automatically prevent trade mark registration.
Adobe Fonts explicitly permits logos to be registered as trade marks under its terms. That permission doesn’t give you ownership of the underlying typeface. (Adobe Fonts licensing FAQs)
There are two separate questions:
- Does the font licence permit your intended use?
- Does the proposed mark meet the legal requirements for registration?
A font licence doesn’t answer the second question or guarantee clearance against existing marks.
In the UK, a word mark concerns the wording, while a figurative mark can protect a particular visual presentation. The protection sought, the goods or services and the territory all matter. (GOV.UK Register a trade mark; Trade Mark Guide)
Other businesses can still license the same typeface. Registering your logo doesn’t give you control over its entire alphabet.
What about copyright?
Copyright and trade marks are different rights.
In the UK, qualifying original work receives copyright protection automatically; there isn’t a government copyright registration requirement. Whether a particular logo qualifies depends on the work. (Business.gov.uk copyright guidance)
Buying a font doesn’t automatically give your logo copyright protection or make it registrable as a trade mark.
Can you modify the lettering?
Check what kind of modification the agreement allows.
Editing outlined letters in a logo is different from opening the font software, changing its characters and generating a new font file.
Some agreements permit the first while restricting the second. Neither automatically gives you exclusive ownership of the original typeface.
If your client wants exclusive lettering or a custom typeface, discuss that explicitly. Moving a few points around isn’t a substitute for agreeing the rights.
Social Media licence
A Social Media licence covers use on social platforms where the foundry treats that as a separate category.
Other providers include ordinary social graphics within their desktop permissions.
Yes, even an Instagram post can send you back to the small print.
What might it cover?
- Branded static posts.
- Carousels.
- Profile and cover graphics.
- Stories.
- Campaign assets.
- Other agreed content on a brand’s social accounts.
What needs checking?
- Which accounts and brands are covered.
- Whether follower counts affect the licence.
- Whether combined followers across platforms are counted.
- Organic posts versus paid advertising.
- Whether video requires extra coverage.
- Whether agencies can create the content.
What’s generally not included automatically?
- Embedding the font in a social app.
- Giving followers downloadable font files.
- Unrelated brands or client accounts.
- Broadcast or paid advertising rights outside the agreement.
Pangram Pangram bases its social coverage on combined follower numbers. Dinamo separates social and video permissions, illustrating how differently providers can treat similar work. (Pangram Pangram FAQ; Dinamo Licensing Terms)
Who should buy the font: the designer or the client?
That depends on the agreement and who will use it.
Your licence may let you create finished artwork for clients. It doesn’t necessarily let those clients install the font themselves.
Other licensing models expect the brand or client to hold the licence, with designers working under specified permissions.
Before handover, establish:
- Who the licence holder is.
- Who can install or access the files.
- Whether the client needs editable documents.
- Whether external suppliers are covered.
- Who handles renewals and upgrades.
Put that information alongside the project files.
A folder called “Fonts—probably fine” isn’t much of a system.
How do you choose the right font licence?
Start with the project, then work towards the licence.
- Describe the finished work. A printed brochure, website, app, game or personalised product?
- Identify everyone who needs the font. Include the client, developers and production partners.
- Separate finished artwork from font distribution. Will anyone receive the font files or use embedded font software?
- Check the scale. Users, traffic, impressions, products, publications and duration may matter.
- Read the actual agreement. The product description is a summary.
- Ask about unclear uses before launch. Give the foundry a specific example.
- Keep the evidence. Save the receipt, licence and any written permissions together.
You don’t need to memorise every foundry’s terms.
You need to recognise when the project goes beyond what you’ve already licensed.
Ask before the project gets expensive
From my side as a type designer, a clear description of the project is much more useful than “Can I use this commercially?”
Tell me what you’re making. Tell me where it will appear. Tell me who needs the files and whether customers will interact with the font.
That gives us a practical starting point.
Font licensing may never become your favourite part of design. It certainly isn’t mine.
But checking it while the project is still a few sketches and a proposal is considerably easier than checking it when the packaging has shipped.
About Simon Stratford
Written by Simon Stratford, type designer and graphic designer. These are my opinions, reached after too little sleep and too much coffee. You can take them or leave them. You can also follow my antics on Instagram, although ‘antics’ may be overselling what is largely pictures of type, design and the occasional coffee.